>> no, no nor, no, no. i'll bring don lemon out. he's going to pick up on this story, so as soon as don is ready, bring him to the show. >> i'm ready. i was just sitting down and getting ready. >> sorry to take you by surprise. rudy giuliani said do not pay with cash, use a check. we did not have this sweetened with an audio expert. rudy giuliani said he did. here's one point. the trump administration put out a statement and said cash is being used as a financing term, not a reference to green money. whether you're paying on a one-time payment or over time, financing. now, if that's true, then why would trump say the word "check"? it is true no payment was ever made of any kind, so this is about intentions and credibility, and this idea that you're going to hear what you want to hear, this is a tricky one. you and i both know michael cohen. that was trump's guy. he had a lot of depth with the trump base.

will they just not believe him out of allegiance to trump when this is someone they also used to believe? >> i think that's a very good position. good questions to ask because you asked a number of questions there. will his base believe this? the "access hollywood" tape happened when he became president. air force i, no, you'll have to ask my attorney, i didn't know about it. weeks later he admitted he knew about it. will it make a difference with the people who support him, will they believe him, or the people he's lied to, which is the american people? or what does that mean for him legally? you said you don't think we should focus on the legal part, but if you'll just indulge me for a moment here, it's not illegal to tape someone. >> in new york, it is a one-party consent state, but it could be unethical for an attorney vis-a-vis the bar association. that's a second consideration. >> even if they gave up the privilege ask they sand they san release it? >> that adds a layer to the

analysis about whether or not it was privileged. there still could be an ethical duty to notify a client. but i'm saying don't just look about criminality as the only bar of evaluation. you know, telling the truth, what is the truth, were you acting in an up and up wayshady not be illegal actions but it doesn't mean they're irrelevant to the people youg govern. >> this is your scoop so i want to play it and then i have some new information i got from people who are close to michael cohen. and before lanny left the studio, i asked him to respond and i'm going to give that response. let's play it and you and i will talk. >> let me know what's happening, okay?

oh. oh. maybe because of this it would be better if you didn't go, you know? maybe because of this, for that one -- i think what we could do is get rid of this because it's so false what they're saying. it's such bullshit. i think this goes away quickly. i think it's probably better to do the johnston thing. in two weeks it's fine. i think right now it's better. okay, honey. you take care of yourself. i'm proud of you. so long. bye. >> great poll, by the way. >> we're making progress.

>> big time. what's happening? can we use him anymore? >> we have a chance here for you. >> we got served from the "new york times," i told you this, regarding unsealing the divorce papers with ivana. we're fighting it. katzowitz doesn't have a legitimate purpose. it's about two or three weeks now. >> all we have to do is delay it for -- >> even after that it's never going to be opened. there is no purpose for it. we talked about charleston. i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david so

that -- i'm going to do that right away. i've spoken to alan wieselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes. and it's all the stuff -- >> you're thinking about that. >> you never know where that company, you never know where he's going to be -- >> you never know if he gets hit by a truck. >> i spoke to alan about that, i spoke to him about the financing. >> what financing? pay cash? >> no nor, no, no, no, no. there is a dispute about what happened. giuliani is saying no, pay with a check, but that's not what you hear on the tape. that's the pertinent part of the tape, and let me remind the viewers, this was two months before the election. what do you say, chris? >> i say that you don't look at it just in terms of whether a crime was committed. this is about who is telling the

truth in this matter. there are two main questions. one, did the president know about the arrangements that his lawyer was making surrounding the payment to karen mcdougal and maybe other assets? he says the other things, we have to buy them all because -- and then trump says maybe he gets hit by a train. we're talking about david peculiare pecker, the head of the national enquirer at the time. and the second one is the idea of what was going on with his intentionality. did he want this done on the up and up the way his legal term asserts that he did, or was he saying pay with cash and not do not pay with cash? then the trump organization argument talking about financing terms, why did he then mention a check? >> what does that mean? i'm glad you said that.

one more time. i want people in the back to hear this. then chris and i will talk. >> i've spoken to alan wiesel be wieselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes. it's all the stuff. you never know where that company, you never know where he's going to be -- >> you never know if he'll get hit by a truck. >> correct. i talked about all of that. we talked about the financing -- >> what financing? >> i have to pay -- >> cash? >> no, no, no, no, no. >> check? >> it sounds like what he's saying, i think he's saying it's unaudible in case pecker or who they work with gets hit by a truck or something. then all this information is still there for the world to see and whoever takes over next, they want to make sure they get all of it before something happens. again, if you're saying we need

to pay by cash or you want to pay by check, the check would seem like they would be financing it, right? >> no. the financing was an awkward word used by cohen, i think, to legitimize the conversation, frankly. cash, check just shows that the president was open to paying -- >> he didn't want people to know about it. >> and look, why not just do the corporate entity in the first place if that's what you wanted? is that illegal? no, and bad fact for anybody who wants to make it about illegal conduct, there was never any transaction. so the corporation was set up but they never bought back the assets, what i'm calling the assets, which are these potentially bad stories for trump. but i just think it's about the truth. and this idea that you're going to look at it depending on whether you like trump or not, thael that's b.s. it's just about what you think is true and what you believe to be true. i didn't put up any translation of it because i don't want to

put words in people's head. you hear it for yourself. this will be chewed on. but it doesn't matter if you're left or right on this, it's just being reasonable and hearing what you hear and thinking about it in context. why would cohen say no, no, no, no, no the way he did? >> right. and making that decision in realtime where you said you didn't put up a transcription of it, when trump said, she had blood coming out of her eyes, she had blood coming out of everywhere, i thought do i say something here? do i let the viewers think of it on their own? you played it here and let people hear what was said. i do want to go back to about buying her out. it wasn't just about mcdougal,

was it? >> on the face of what we hear, the answer is no, it was not just about karen mcdougal. i asked lanny davis and he rightly skirted the question. he said, i've got my own privilege issues with my client, michael cohen, i can't answer that. if you play it again, he says, no, we have to get all of the things, and then they have the discussion of a, god forbid something happens to mr. pecker. so it wasn't just one thing. what other things do they have? >> we have to put up a response, so here's what the trump team is saying of what he said on tape. >> this is their version of the transcript. they said, this is the transcript. >> they're saying he said, well, are you going to pay him with something? then donald trump said, don't pay him with cash, check. and he says, no, no, no, i got it. nowhere in there does it say michael cohen says cash. >> michael cohen never says cash in what i hear -- >> check, rather. you hear him say check.

>> i never hear michael cohen say cash or check. i hear donald trump say cash and check. the trump organization has this argument that he was talking about a way to pay for things and not green money. then why did he mention a check if he was talking about a full payment or prorated or staggered payments, he wouldn't have said check. >> so, listen, i spoke with some of michael cohen's friends. i just want to read it specifically. his friends say it certainly looks like he wants to tell the tuth to the most important person in america right now who is seeking the truth about trump. you know who that is, that's mueller. i asked lanny davis when he was on your set, i asked him, please come see me, i want to ask you about something i heard. he said, i can't answer that question. the truth is on our side. who wants to most hear the truth from michael cohen? i have to leave it at that and leave it unanswered. >> lanny davis is a very

talented advocate. he's certainly a much better lawyer than i am which is why we have to do more homework here. talk to mueller about what? mueller is investigating russian attacks on our democracy and anybody who helped in those efforts. so what does cohen have on any of that? that's the question. this has nothing to do with what mueller is looking for. >> i think they're saying it's just an indication that he wants to -- if he has something, flip on trump and go to the special prosecutor and tell him what he knows. that's what this -- >> and i'dershowitz said, this shows he's going to flip. flip on what? he hasn't been charged on anything. he may not be charged with anything. you have your own relationship with michael cohen and i had wars with him when i was on "new day," but i think he has a tough battle in front of him pr-wise. because he is known to the

american people as donald trump's boy who fought against him, attacked his enemies and would do anything for him. and now his theory is, i had to tape him, ethical or unethical, because i had to protect myself. he could have just not done whatever he thinks he needs protection from. so eyes ghe's got some work to think, when it comes over to winning the american audience. the truth may set him free. >> depending on what state you're in in the united states, it may be legal or it may not. it is legal here in new york to record someone without them knowing it. only the person doing the recording has to know. chris, thank you so much. i'll see you tomorrow. great job. let's bring in now cnn white house correspondent kaitlan collins, chief correspondent of yahoo news, and the inside story of putin's war on america and the adviser to donald trump.

john dean, i'm so glad you're here because you've gone through this before. a snippet of the tape. >> i've spoken to alan wieselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes. and it's all the stuff. because you never know where that company, you never know where he's going to be -- >> you never know if he'll get hit by a truck. >> correct. i'm all over that. i spoke to alan about it when it comes time for the financing -- >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay -- >> pay with cash? >> no, no, no, no, no. >> check? >> so john, michael cohen had said at one point he wanted to be the john dean of the story. what's your reaction to this tape tonight? >> well, it's interesting, i'm somebody who has listened to an awful lot of tapes back in the nixon era and more recently thousands of them for nixon's conversations, every conversation he did on

watergate. the only way you can really hear a tape is with a foot pedal where you can reverse and listen and listen and listen. each time i've listened to this tape, i've heard something different or a little bit more. and what it does to me is if he wants to do what i did, having the tape to back you up is certainly nice. i didn't know tapes were there. i suspected they were there but didn't know initially when i broke rank and started talking. after my testimony is when the tapes came out. but i think this does put the lie to the trump people on their version of this story as i hear it. it certainly comports with what michael has been saying, so this bolsters his truth. >> so lanny davis was on with chris moments ago, and he said trump and the people have been telling you that he didn't know about this, and on and on and on. of course the statement tonight,

you see the version of what they hear on the tape. but do you think -- how much of this will make a difference? does it matter in the court of public opinion most or does it matter in the court of law most? how much of a play does this tape have in any of that? >> you want my reaction? >> yeah. >> my reaction is we're just getting to know who michael jackson is, michael cohen. this is one of the introductions. that's why he obviously hired lanny davis, and he will expose this more and more to michael who doesn't have a good reputation going into this situation. i think this is the sort of thing that will start to rehabilitate that, that he's a man who wants to tell the truth, and he's showing how they have tried to distort his positions even before he's come out and said a word. so i think this helps him in that regard. >> you're saying a foot peddal. in the old days you would have to rewind.

lanny davis is saying listen to this yourself and you come up with what you believe is being said there. so kaitlan, what does the release of this tape mean for the president? what's the response there, anything? >> well, don, there is no response yet but it means the white house won't be able to deny that the president was well aware and involved in these discussions about paying someone to stay silent about her allegations of an affair with the president. which is something they've done in the past. they did it very adamantly with stormy daniels, as you'll recall, and that really blew up in the face of a lot of white house officials who had maintained that the president had no idea about that payment, nothing to do with it, and then rudy giuliani, his attorney, went on television and said, actually, the president did know about it and he helped facilitate that payment by repaying michael cohen. you have noticed that in the weeks that they've been asked about karen mcdougal, this woman who allegedly had a longstanding affair with the president, the white house has not issued those kinds of defenses of the president.

just this week sarah sanders was asked if the president maintains he did not have an affair with karen mcdougal. sarah sanders did not say no, which was very telling in and of itself. instead she said the president maintains he's done nothing wrong, and then she referred questions to rudy giuliani. it seems the white house has learned that they got burned after they said the president didn't know anything about stormy daniels, then they found out he did. they are not issuing that same kind of defense when it comes to karen mcdougal. >> so mr. israkof, all along the president has denied the affair through his spokespeople and so on. this tape appears, and correct me if i'm wrong, confirmation that he did have some sort of something with her and that he conspired with michael cohen to cover it up? >> well, i didn't hear any reference to karen mcdougal much less an affair with karen mcdougal on the tape. so obviously there is a lot more that preceded this and a lot more that followed it. and it's very hard from this

somewhat am bbiguous tape to dr any conclusions. yes, it appears that donald trump uses the word "cash" and that is suggestive and maybe embarrassing to the president. but all the other things the president has said that have proven to be untrue, i'm not sure how all of this stacks up. legally, the only way this is a legal matter is if this was somehow done in the context of the election. and that payments were made that amounted to an illegal campaign contribution. for one thing, apparently no money was paid, at least not that we know, and i certainly didn't hear any reference to the election on the tape. so as a legal matter, i'm just not quite sure what this adds up to. >> this was shortly before the election. the timing is important as well.

>> the timing is important, but to make a criminal case, you've got to prove that was exactly what was on their minds. >> kaitlan, thank you very much. michael, john, i want you to stick around. we have much more on the breaking news tonight. much more on the secret tape received exclusively by cnn of michael cohen and president trump about buying the rights of mcdougal's story and what she says was an affair. we'll be right back. n. forward. woman: it felt great not having hepatitis c. it's like a load off my shoulders. i was just excited for it to be over. harvoni is a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. it's been prescribed to more than a quarter million people and is proven to cure up to 99% of patients

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t-mobile stands ready to serve you. that's why we're providing half off family lines to all military. we're back now with our breaking news. cnn releases a secret recording between then-candidate donald trump and his attorney michael cohen explaining how they would buy the rights to a playboy model's story about her alleged affair that happened years earlier, in 2006. i want to bring back mike isakof and john dean. mike, do you think they were worried about this secret recording?

>> i think they were worried about come what may. they may have been worried about the potential fraud or corruption. they just put it out there feeling they could walk or talk their way around it. so i am not surprised they waived. nixon happened to waive with me before i testified. that was a smart move because the crime fraud situation certainly was there. >> i want to just play again the pertinent part of this tape where they are discussing this payment. listen. >> great poll, by the way. >> making progress. >> big time. >> your guy is a good guy. >> pastor scott? >> can we use him anymore? >> i'm sorry, richard lavrov just called. he said they have an idea for you. >> we got served from the "new

york times" regarding to unseal the divorce papers with ivana. we're fighting it. kasowitz is going to -- they don't have a legitimate purpose. >> this has been going on for a while. >> two or three weeks now. >> you just have to delay it. >> even after that it doesn't need to be opened. there's no purpose for it. we talked about charleston. i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david so that -- i'm going to do that right away. >> give it to me. >> i've spoken to alan wieselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes. and it's all the stuff, all the

stuff. because you never know where that company, where he's going to be -- >> we never know if he gets hit by a truck. >> i've talked to alan about that, about the financing -- >> financing? you pay with cash? >> no, no, no, no, no. >> check? >> cohen is talking about buying the rights from ami, american media, inc. they're talking about one of their corporations doing it. the president says make sure it's done correctly and make sure it's done by check. is that what you hear, michael? >> no. i did not. that seems like a creative interpretation of what was on the tape. but, you know, a couple things do leap out. trump seemed a little surprised when i listened to it again about financing. what financing? you know, i think his guard is up a little bit there. wait, i'm going to have to shell out for this?

but, you know, look, you want to know so much more about obviously conversations had to have preceded this about what all that other stuff was. you know, we don't know. but i just want to come back to -- as a legal matter, because i do -- you know, look, there are serious questions whether this justice department, given the existing olc opinion would ever charge the president with a crime, anyway. but the only crime that's been identified in all of this so far is that illegal campaign contribution issue, and like i said, i'm not sure this advances the ball much on that. the other matter that struck me in listening to chris' interview with lanny davis was the one matter where cohen factors into the russia investigation where there was the claim that he flew

to prague and met with russian operatives about paying off hackers. even now when michael cohen is doing everything to assert the truth and distance himself from donald trump, i heard lanny davis say there was absolutely no truth to that. so in terms of the russia investigation, michael cohen is not flipped in a way that's going to help robert mueller, at least on that which was one of the more sensational allegations in the steele dossier. >> listen, john, the president reacted to the story that michael cohen had secretly taped him when it first came out. and he tweeted this. inconceivable that the government would break into a lawyer's office early in the morning. almost unheard of. even more inconceivable that a lawyer would tape a client totally unheard of and perhaps illegal. the good news is that your

favorite president did nothing wrong. john, we said it before but it's worth saying again, the government was wrong when they said the lawyer broke into his office. they talked about how professional they were, even thanked him when they left. he even said they didn't break into his office. what do you make of this tweet in light of what we learned tonight? it's not illegal to tape someone in new york. >> that's correct. >> do you think it's unethical? >> you know something, every time i've heard this tape, i have thought it is not a telephone conversation we're listening to. we hear him having a conversation on the side, then we hear a lot of room noises. we hear other people shouting and having a sort of sub side conversation. i don't think this is a telephone conversation, don. i think he was recorded in his office. >> oh, in the office. but even still, if you're recording someone not on the

phone -- >> i've not looked up the new york law. >> i'm not an attorney, but i think one-party consent is one-party consent, whether you're on the phone or in person. >> this is bugging a room, possibly. that might raise a different issue if this isn't a telephone call. it does raise also -- new york is kind of confused. the american bar association came out and said it is not unethical for a lawyer to record a conversation with a client if it's all right with the state law. new york city bar came out against that aba position and took exception to it. so there are ethical issues that he faces on this. but again, as i say, i really wonder if this is a telephone conversation. >> it's interesting, because it has been said donald trump will record people in his office. what if these are his tapes? >> that's a possibility, too,

that he was aware of it. >> what do you think, michael? >> i'm not quite sure how the prosecutors would have gotten it or lanny davis would have gotten it. it is worth -- look, when the first reports on this tape surfaced at the end of last week, it was not entirely clear where the tape -- how the tape had emerged, who had leaked it. i think it's pretty clear now that it's lanny davis who is giving out the tape. he provided it to cnn. what that tells me is that michael cohen does not yet have a deal with federal prosecutors. because if he did, this tape, we wouldn't be hearing this tape. the prosecutors would not want this tape out. this is a plea to get a deal for prosecutors, and michael cohen's legal team is putting it out there to sort of tantalize prosecutors, telling them, in effect, we can fill in all the blanks for you, so give us a

deal. >> michael, john, thank you so much, gentlemen. i appreciate it. when we come back, the trump organization responds to our cnn exclusive, the cohen-trump tape. plus another cnn exclusive. why stormy daniels' lawyer, michael avenatti, reportedly asked for a meeting with michael cohen. is a settlement on the table? michael avenatti meets with me next hour. paying too much for insurance you don't even understand?

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the trump organization responding tonight to our cnn exclusive, the cohen-trump tape, and we have another cnn exclusive tonight. it involves trump's former fixer, michael cohen, and stormy daniels' lawyer, michael avenatti. thank you so much for joining us. listen, cara, i understand that the trump organization has responded to the release of this tape. what are they saying about it? >> that's right, don. the trump organization has told us in a statement tonight that when there is reference to the word cash on the tape, which in itself is money, as you've explained, the reference is not to bags of cash, it's not to green currency. what the trump organization is saying is this would have been like a cash payment, not a

financing scheme, but it still would have been followed through the proper protocol of heavy lawyer documents, lawyers on both sides negotiating the terms of this, not that there were bags of cash walking around. of course, lanny davis said the only people who use cash are drug dealers and mobsters. they're saying this is not what they're talking about. it doesn't explain why we hear or why rudy giuliani, another of tru trump's lawyers, uses the word "check." >> we're going to talk to michael avenatti, but i know he's already responded to this situation, specifically referencing lanny davis' interview on cnn tonight? >> that's right. michael avenatti put out a statement on twitter where he tweeted about lanny davis' comment. of course, avenatti is very interested in this because he represents stormy daniels and they have sued michael cohen. he says, mr. davis is a good

lawyer but his client mr. cohen is not innocent nor is he a victim. he is a co-conspirator dishonest thug who continues to refuse to come clean and do the right thing. they are playing you and aiming for a pardon. where is the rest of the evidence and tapes? >> interesting. you are hearing more about the relationship between michael avenatti and stormy daniels. what are you hearing? >> what we're hearing is michael avenatti requested a meeting with michael cohen to discuss a confession between cohen and the former porn star. just to remind everyone, stormy daniels said she had an affair with donald trump in 2006. michael cohen paid her $130,000 before the 2016 election to keep quiet about that alleged affair. she's now suing president trump as well as michael cohen. now blakely, this lawyer who is representing cohen on the stormy daniels' related matters, he tells cnn exclusively today that

avenatti asked cohen and blakely to meet in person in new york to discuss a settlement between daniels and cohen. blakely said a meeting was set for this week but that he subsequently canceled that meeting after avenatti went on tv and said that avenatti and his lawyers were open to settling. >> what is avenatti saying? >> avenatti is denying he asked for a meeting to discuss a settlement, saying blakely's claim is completely false and designed to help cohen get a pardon from mr. trump. now, when we pressed him on the key question, which is whether he or his client stormy daniels would be open to a settlement with michael cohen, here's what avenatti said. he said, quote, we don't do settlements with people who continue to lie to the american people, which is what michael cohen wants to do. he needs to stop playing games in courting a pardon from donald trump and do the right thing. it's important to know that the

stormy daniels lawsuit is an entirely separate situation from what's taking place with michael cohen in new york. we know investigators have their hands on millions of documents and recordings. this, of course, is another one and other files that the fbi seized earlier this year, and cohen is obviously waiting to find out his fate in that criminal investigation. >> gene and cara, thank you for being here. a secret recording obtained by cnn of donald trump and michael cohen constitutesing how they would buy the rights to a playboy model's story about an alleged affair with trump. ing h they would buy the rights to a playboy model's story about an alleged affair with trump. ing h they would buy the rights to a playboy model's story about an alleged affair with trump. in 2017,

california had the worst wildfire season on record. scientists say, our weather is becoming more extreme and we all have to be better prepared. that's why pg&e is adopting new and additional safety precautions to help us monitor and respond to dangerous weather. hi, i'm allison bagley, a meteorologist with pg&e's community wildfire safety program. we're working now, to enhance our weather forecasting capabilities,

building a network of new weather stations to identify when and where extreme wildfire conditions may occur, so we can respond faster and better. we're installing cutting edge technology to provide real-time mapping and tracking of weather patterns. and we use this information in partnership with first responders and california's emergency response systems. to learn more about the community wildfire safety program and how you can help keep your home and community safe, visit pge.com/wildfiresafety we're back now with our cnn exclusive. we have obtained the recording between then-candidate donald trump and his lawyer michael cohen discussing how to buy the rights of a playboy model's

story alleging an affair with trump. gentlemen, good evening. mr. preston, you first. let me get your reaction to this breaking news we've been listening to. you remember we were on live that night for the "access hollywood" tape, and now here we are. do you think this is damaging to the president? >> let's go back to that night. i said it was all over for donald trump. i didn't think he would be able to continue on with his campaign. we saw republicans come out and say he's got to step aside. look where we are right now. honestly, i don't think this is going to have much effect on anything unless there is some criminality proven that they were trying to use it as some kind of campaign donation or somehow related to the campaign, and they did not acknowledge it. even if that was the case, it's probably still not enough for president trump to get in a whole lot of trouble. >> so, max, rudy giuliani is disputing the content. what's your read on this? >> it's very hard to take seriously anything that rudy giuliani says at this point, because he just makes wild

claims. obviously this tape further confirms that what we basically know, which is donald trump is a liar, and it's pretty obvious that he was involved in these payoffs to the play mate as well as to the porn star. and his denials just have no credibility whatsoever. the thing i would add, don, though, i think this is only the tip of a very large iceberg involving michael cohen. remember, there is a lot of other stuff involving michael cohen including his consulting business where he is said to have solicited a $1 million fee from cutter to try to influence the trump administration. he got money from victor vexelberg, this russian oligarch for purposes we can only get at. so he was involved in a lot of shady dealings essentially working as a lobbyist at the same time working as trump's lawyer. he may have violated the federal

agent act. he knows a lot of things about the president and this could be a warning shot across the bow of rudy giuliani and donald trump knowing how much michael cohen knows. >> the candidate at the time doesn't seem like he's surprised or he doesn't know about what michael cohen is bringing to him. i want you to listen to this and then we'll respond. >> and i've spoken to alan wieselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes. and it's all the stuff, all the stuff. because you never know where that company, never know where he's going to be. >> he could get hit by a truck. >> yes. and i spoke to alan about it when it comes to the financing -- >> what financing? >> well, i have to pay -- >> cash?

>> no, no, no, no, no. >> the president has denied this, but he seems like he knows exactly what michael cohen is talking about. he denied the stormy daniels incident as well or alleged affair, and now this. it appears he knew about this one as well. >> there is no question about that, don. look, we could sit here and talk ourselves blue about how much donald trump lies, and we'll hold up a red apple and tell you it's a green apple and damn well you better listen to him and it better be a green apple that comes out of your mouth. what i do think is interesting about that conversation, and it will take some time to dissect these words and piece them together. even if it was cash or a check through the shell corporation, you're still trying to hide something. it's the same purpose to try to hide a payment. so that in and of itself is pretty devious. but again, 10 years ago, heck, five years ago, this would destroy a politician's life. it would destroy a presidency.

donald trump just seems to thrive off it. >> don, one of the things that jumps out at me is the extent to which donald trump was actually involved in the nitty-gritty and the details. he was not taking a hands-off attitude about this sort of back row dealing. he wanted to know exactly what was going on and i suspect that was part of a larger pattern which may have extended to the possible help that the russian government gave the trump campaign in 2016 and winning the election. you know, we know a lot of contacts between the trump campaign and the russians, 82 documented contacts at this point. the question is how much did donald trump know and when did he know it. what this suggests to me is he may actually know more than a lot of people think, that he may not have been so hands off, he may have been involved in a lot of sordid dealings more than the alleged payoffs to the mistresses. >> he may be trying to come

clean, michael cohen, but he's known as the fixer. as he said, i would take a bullet for donald trump at one point. is that believable now, mark, that he's repairing his reputation and he wants to come clean? what do you think? >> don, honestly, i was going to interrupt you at one point and bring up this point and tie together what max had said about michael cohen. michael cohen knows a lot right now. what lanny davis said on behalf of michael cohen in the last hour here on cnn about how he's a changed man and how he's evolving. bottom line right now is michael cohen is in a lot of trouble. he has a lot of investigations against him right now. in the end, donald trump is not going to be the one he's taking a bullet for, he's taking a bullet for his wife and children as any normal person. >> you don't think he's seen the light, max? >> it's hard to know what the heck is going on there, but what's obvious from this is michael cohen has gone renegade, essentially. he's not being a good soldier anymore. he's not being the guy, as was

just suggested, that's going to take the fall for donald trump. he's going to look out for number one himself, and that could spell very big trouble for donald trump, because it's obvious that michael cohen knows a heck of a lot about donald trump's private business dealings that donald trump has strived so hard to keep secret by not releasing his tax returns, not releasing his business records. michael jackson michael cohen, i suspect, knows where a lot of the bodies are buried, so i suspect michael do trump will be sweating up a storm and tweeting about these allegations. we'll be right back. who has the upper hand now? start winning today. book now at lq.com.

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esurance. an allstate company. sometimes a day at the ballpark is more than just a day at the ballpark. stadium announcer: all military members stand and be recognized. no matter where or when you served, t-mobile stands ready to serve you. that's why we're providing half off family lines to all military. just for a shot. with neulasta onpro patients get their dayr back to be with family, or just to sleep in. strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. in a key study neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17% to 1%, a 94% decrease. neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the day after chemo and is used by most patients today. neulasta is for certain cancer patients receiving strong chemotherapy. do not take neulasta if you're allergic to it or neupogen (filgrastim). an incomplete dose could increase infection risk. ruptured spleen, sometimes fatal as well as serious lung problems allergic reactions, kidney injuries and capillary leak syndrome have occurred. report abdominal or shoulder tip pain, trouble breathing or

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model story alleging an affair with trump. that affair was alleged back in 2006. joining me now is cnn's global affairs analyst susan glasser. susan, good evening to you. very interesting night here in this recording. i want to get your reaction about this recording between cohen and donald trump. what are the consequence for the president? >> you have had some smart commentators who pointed out it clearly represents a significant message from cohen and his legal team lanny davis, a veteran of high stakes legal and political fights like this. of course it's a message to president trump that cohen is no longer on the team, that he is clearly signalling he knows lots of significant, potentially damaging revelations that he can make against the president. i guess one question i have is why now, why are they releasing the tape right now. is this a message that is aimed at the pros duterteeecutors?

is it about cohen trying to get a plea bargain or deal of some sort with the prosecutors? or is it fundamentally a message for donald trump and his legal team or perhaps to both? that to be the intent. it is a fragmentary tape. we don't have the full context surrounding it. it's hard to draw hard and fast substantive judgments about what's in there. clearly it's revelatory. >> it is separate and apart from the robert mueller investigation, although he recommended or sent the information over to the southern district in the first place. but do you think this could have any consequence for the mueller probe? >> well, you know, of course that's the question that immediately left to my mind tonight on hearing about the information on this tape. what is on the other tapes? what other information does michael cohen have that if he's really broken ranks firmly with

president trump, the guy he said he would take a bullet for, you know, does he have more information that would be relevant to the mueller investigation? i nolanknow lanny davis made a of the steele dossier related to michael cohen and the alleged trip that he took to prague according to that dossier. but he didn't speak -- lanny davis didn't speak to the broader question of does michael cohen have information relevant perhaps about donald trump's financial dealings, any financial connections to russians, for example, that might eventually turn up in the mueller investigation. that's the natural question. you know, someone pointed out that politically speaking it's unclear the damage that might come from this, simply because it seems like many people have probably already assumed that the allegations about president trump, then candidate trump, knowing about these alleged

payoffs in 2016 -- most people have sort of already -- >> built into it. >> exactly. >> it's built into the sauce. thank you, susan, i appreciate your time. >> thank you. when we come back, the tale of the tape. cnn exclusively object taping the secret audio between donald trump and michael cohen about buying the story of the play boy. stick with us. you're going to want to hear more. ♪ ♪ let your perfect drive come together at the lincoln summer invitation sales event. get 0% apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus $1,000 bonus cash.

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call 811 before you dig, and make sure that you and your neighbors are safe. this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon, 11:00 p.m. on the east coast. all the break being news and a cnn exclusive. secret tape of candidate donald trump talking with his fixer, attorney michael cohen , about how they would buy the rights to a play boy model story about an alleged affair with trump years earlier. hear for yourself what they said. >> quick poll b